Jeff Kessler walked into a conference room in Charleston last week and saw one of his two opponents in the Democratic race for governor.
"Just me and you again?" Kessler, the state Senate minority leader, asked former U.S. Attorney Booth Goodwin, who had arrived minutes earlier.
It was the third event in recent weeks with just the two candidates sharing a stage. The front-runner in the Democratic race, businessman Jim Justice, has declined invitations to events and potential debates with his opponents.
When given the opportunity, Goodwin and Kessler criticized Justice for his absences and for his campaign's lack of policy specifics. But the two largely stuck to the issues during a wide-ranging discussion Thursday between Democratic gubernatorial candidates and Gazette-Mail editors focused on West Virginia's budget woes and its economic future.
Justice, a coal and agriculture magnate and owner of The Greenbrier resort, declined an invitation to attend.
"If it's for sale, if this job is just for sale, then he's going to win it, he's got more money than you and I," Kessler, the Democratic leader in the state Senate, said of Justice, the state's richest man. "If a candidate's not willing to come before you, tell you what they stand for, stand before the people of this state and explain why and what their vision is, what their platform is and why they're the best candidate, then I'm not so sure they deserve your vote."
Goodwin said that running a corporation - Justice owns 97 different businesses and has had repeated legal tiffs over unpaid bills - and running a government are very different things.
"I don't know what Jim Justice stands for, but I do know that being governor means you have to show up," Goodwin said. "Being governor is entirely about character and you have to be responsible, pay your bills, be on time and stand for something and I don't see that out of Mr. Justice, I just don't."
Justice said in November that he would lay out a jobs plan in about 60 days. That plan has not yet been released. A campaign spokesman said two weeks ago that it was coming soon.
Justice will likely only appear with his opponents once - at a candidates "forum" sponsored by the state Democratic Party. That event is scheduled for 11 a.m. Saturday at the Charleston Civic Center. Senate President Bill Cole is running unopposed for the Republican nomination for governor.
Kessler and Goodwin agree on many issues facing the state, but disagreed on the immediate path forward for the state budget.
With West Virginia facing a massive budget deficit, and with Gov. Earl Ray Tomblin and the Republican-controlled Legislature now a month into a budget standoff, Kessler was blunt in his call for more tax revenue.
More cuts to things like higher education, K-12 education, health clinics and the Promise Scholarship would be catastrophic, he said.
"Somebody needs to tell the people of this state the truth," Kessler said. "You can't cut the programs that they're talking about cutting without sending West Virginia, in my view, not into a recession but into a depression."
Kessler has proposed a $1-per-pack increase of the tobacco tax to fund drug treatment programs and free or reduced tuition for state community and technical colleges. He also spoke generally of an increase in the alcohol tax and other possible tax increases that could be retired when West Virginia's immediate budget woes are gone.
Goodwin said that an increased tobacco tax "makes perfect sense," but was hesitant to firmly commit to either higher taxes or further spending cuts.
He called for a "top-to-bottom" review of state government spending.
"It may very well be that we need to raise revenue, but I don't think anyone has a taste for raising revenue until we can demonstrate clearly to the people of West Virginia that more revenue is needed," Goodwin said. "If we're going to raise revenue, the taxes have to be ones that aren't going to hurt us."
He said the state would likely have to dip into the Rainy Day Fund to cover the current budget shortfall. Kessler said we shouldn't dip into the reserve fund, citing concerns that it would harm the government's bond rating and ability to fund future projects.
Both candidates spoke critically of some business tax cuts passed by Democrats in the past decade, specifically the cut in the corporate net income tax. That, combined with the elimination of the business franchise tax, has cost the state hundreds of millions of dollars in foregone revenue.
"I haven't seen any corresponding job growth in those sectors that would correspond to the tax cuts we've given," Kessler said.
Goodwin spoke similarly, but said the problem wasn't the business tax cut, it was that it was the wrong business tax cut.
"Restoring the corporate net income tax makes sense, but only if we reevaluate the tax on inventory," he said, adding that he hears from business owners all the time about the tax on business inventory.
Both candidates criticized bills passed by the Legislature in the last two years that rolled back some mine safety standards.
But they differed slightly on how they would run state agencies responsible for protecting the environment and enforcing workplace safety.
Goodwin, who led the five-year investigation into former Massey Energy CEO Don Blankenship, said the state needs to be more diligent on mine safety, adding that "safety and productivity aren't diametrically opposed.
"Under my administration you would see thorough enforcement, but what you would also see is us making sure that we're working with the mines, too," he said. "If they are trustworthy and demonstrate their worthiness of trust, we help them through those issues."
Kessler said that state regulatory agency's focus on cooperation with mine operators in recent years has had the result of chipping away at some of the state's safety laws.
The Office of Miners Health, Safety and Training "would be focused on, not production, not on economics, but on enforcing the mine safety laws."
He added that the Department of Environmental Protection would be similarly focused on environmental protection, not on cooperating with industry.
"If our goal is to have mine safety, then it's going to be mine safety and it is not going to be whether it's convenient for the industry," he said. "I've seen the industry operate over the years, and they exert way too much influence, in my view, over what ultimately happens."
Justice has said he sees a real possibility of a resurgence of coal jobs, despite an unprecedented downturn and wave of coal company bankruptcies.
Asked if they think a big coal comeback is realistic, Kessler and Goodwin were both quick with the same answer.
"No."
"We've got to prepare as if it's not going to occur," Goodwin said. "I don't know anyone who can say with a straight face that coal is going to return to its previous level."
Kessler said coal will continue to be prominent but will never again be dominant and that the focus on fighting the federal government was largely counterproductive. He said he often asks people how the state's economy ranked when coal was in its heyday.
"Was our economy top five, middle five or bottom five?" he asked. "If we win this 'war on coal,' where are we going to be? If the answer's still bottom five, is that really good enough?"
Kessler touted past successes in economic diversification that were spurred by government bond issues or tax financing plans - Power Park in Charleston, Pullman Square in Huntington and the Cabela's in Wheeling.
"Government stimulates the economy," he said, describing himself as a Keynesian. "You invest in people, you invest in infrastructure."
Goodwin said government needs to be more helpful to businesses.
"One of the frustrations that I hear from small businesses all the time is that government really isn't out there to try to help them through the hoops," he said. "The most efficient government is when you've missed a deadline by a couple of days. What we need to do as a government is to help businesses comply, help them get started."
Reach David Gutman at david.gutman@wvgazettemail.com, 304-348-5119 or follow @davidlgutman on Twitter.